“God is trinity - distinct in person; one in being, purpose & action”
(No, you didn't miss part a. I just think it makes sense to talk about this first.)
Rowan's second talk at AnCon focussed on the nature of God, and in particular the relationships the Holy Spirit has with the Father and the Son. Usually the Trinity is a mind-blowing thing to think about, and so it was a little surprising to be diving into this on the first day. Having to lead a review group on it on day two freaked me out more than a bit!
Despite this, I can now see that talking about the Trinity on day one was a crucial move for Rowan to make. When you're talking about one member of the Trinity, it's absolutely important to understand what you're talking about when you say “one member of the Trinity”. Better yet: it's crucially important to understand Who you're talking about. I'm thankful Rowan went there so soon, because without him doing so I think I would have misunderstood a lot of crucial points throughout the week. I think this is where everything started to make sense for me, because at this point I began to better understand who my God is.
“Trinity”... “tri-unity”... three/one... three in one... the word itself is not powerful or particularly special, but it describes how God has revealed Himself to us, and that is powerful. That is one of the most astounding truths of the gospel, and is Christianity's glorious difference. God reveals Himself to humankind just as He is, so that we can know Him - not with a shallow intellectual knowledge, but a deeply personal and intimate knowledge. We can relate to Him as He is, without guesswork and with an open invitation. We can relate to Him as trinity, knowing how He works internally, and how He interacts with us and His world.
The Trinity is distinct in person. More than just personality, mind you; the Father, the Son and the Spirit are really different from each other, and are not just different states of God's mind. And yet, the Trinity is united. They are united in being - the one God, not three Gods. They are united in purpose, working towards the same goal. And, they are united in action, working together in whatever they do. It is this last point which grabbed me, shook me and reshaped my thoughts of God before sitting me down before His feet for the rest of the week. Unity in purpose I figured I understood, or at least vaguely comprehended, but action is something entirely different.
Rowan summarised the relationships in the Trinity in this way:
- The Father sends the Son through the Spirit
- The Father sends the Spirit through the Son
- The Father is glorified by the Son and the Spirit
So, for example, the Father set up Jesus' incarnation by the Spirit making Mary pregnant. Then, after His earthly ministry, Jesus asks the Father to send the Spirit to His disciples. The Spirit then works through the message and miracles of the disciples to glorify Jesus, whom they proclaim; and Jesus' glory is the glory of the Father (John 17:1). This illustrates both the unity in purpose and the unity in action that the Trinity has.
One way I've found quite helpful to think about the Trinity in the past is as God, Word and Breath, picking up on the name John uses for Jesus at the start of his gospel, and on another literal meaning of the Hebrew word translated as “spirit” in our bibles. I doubt this is the most helpful way to think about God, as it's easy to downplay the personhood of the Word and the Breath, but I think the concrete imagery it gives have been helpful to me. Thinking about it this way, you could rewrite Rowan's summary like this:
- God sends his Word through his Breath (speaking requires breathing)
- God sends out his Breath because of his Word (words need a conduit to be communicative)
- God is glorified by what his Word and Breath accomplish
Now as I said, I don't think this is the most helpful way to think about God, particularly since Jesus is fully human, as well as fully God. You do also have to keep in mind that God is spirit, not flesh, and that applying human features to God is, at best, analogous. However, John does call Jesus the Word at the start of his gospel, as I already mentioned, and I think John 1 is the passage that has helped me the most when it comes to understanding that Jesus is fully God. Thinking about God in this way makes sense of a lot of the Old Testament, and helps you to see the Trinity at work together before Jesus' incarnation. With this framework, the work of creation is instantly recognisable as the work of the Trinity. The Breath hovered over the surface of the unformed earth as God was there, imagining His creation-to-be; then He spoke, filling his Breath with the Word of his command, and through that Word “all things were made” (John 1:3). Also, think of God's prophets. The phrase “The word of the LORD came to [so-and-so]” is frequently found at the beginning of a prophecy in the OT, and as Rowan pointed out in Zechariah 7:12, these were “the words that the LORD Almighty had sent by his Spirit” - his Breath. God's Breath, his Spirit with them, enabled the prophets to proclaim the Word. The Word of God never goes out into the world without his Breath to carry it. I think this can be helpful for thinking about how the members of the Trinity work together; however, it could be dangerous to your understanding that they are each a distinct and real person. If any of this is heretical I demand that you correct me.
I don't think I'll ever look at God's work the same way again. Everything God has ever done, and ever will do, is the work of the Father, the Son and the Spirit. I think it's reassuring to know that God is unified in His actions as well as His overall purpose. It means that Jesus' crucifixion wasn't an unjust punishment, but an act of love and victory on Jesus' part as well. Even my own sanctification is a Trinitarian work: the Father loves me and adopted me; Jesus died and rose again for me; the Spirit teaches me from the Word as He conforms me to His likeness, and gives me gifts with which to glorify Jesus - my King, my redeemer and my example. The love of the Father, the word of the Son and the power of the Spirit are at work in every believer, and consequently in every believing church. Among other things, I find it reassuring to know that the Spirit hasn't abandoned the Anglican church. He is still with us yet (well, many of us), and as long as we follow Christ He will remain, for He works alongside the Father and the Son for our good and the Father's glory. I might touch on that more in other posts.
I'm certain I haven't done this justice... but that was never going to happen. This is something that I'll be trying to understand for the rest of my life. However, I think I know my God a little better now, and for that I'm glad.
"Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. He taught in their synagogues, and everyone praised him. He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
'The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.'
Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them, 'Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.'"
- Luke 4:14-21, NIV, taken from BibleGateway.com
(Note: Do not watch The Matrix or any of its sequels while trying to write anything on the Trinity.)
Adam,
ReplyDeleteThankyou for your suggestion. I watched the first 22.5 minutes of the video, and read about 5 or 6 of the posts on your blog, which I am aware is little more than a courtesy. However, I am convinced from these that I have an adequate idea of your doctrines, as you are quite open about them.
I am afraid that you and your church are gravely mistaken. Not because you differ in opinion from me (that would be the height of arrogance), but because your use of scripture is selective, and because in your confusion you have sought out scriptures which support your views while ignoring those that correct them. The proper method of dealing with scripture - the living word of God, as explained in Hebrews 4:12 - is to read it as it is then let it guide our lives, not to let our lives guide our reading of scripture.
What I saw of your teaching completely neglected John 1 - "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (v1) Clearly John, a Jew, was of the opinion that Jesus was God. If you doubt that "the Word" refers to Jesus, v14 makes it clear. v3 makes clear that Jesus' work is not only redemptive, but that creation happened through him. In v18 John calls Jesus "God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side". John seems convinced of Jesus' identity with God, as much later on in life, in 1 John 5:20, he says that Jesus is "the true God".
Romans 9:5 makes it clear that Paul considers Jesus Christ to be "God over all, forever praised". He states this in the same sentence as he states that Jesus was a human Jew. Trinitarian belief is completely consistent with this sentence: we hold that Jesus was both fully God, and fully human, on the basis of passages such as this, and Philippians 2:5-11 (which also describes something of the giving of glory within the Trinity).
Then there is Jesus' own testimony about Himself. One of your own blog posts said "...let Jesus be who he said he is", so heed this well. In John 8:58-59, Jesus declares, "Before Abraham was born, I am!". The Jews then tried to stone him for blasphemy. They knew what he had meant, because they knew that the word "I am" in Hebrew is the first person form of the name of God, of which the third person form is "Yahweh". John 14:5-14 also gives strong indication that Jesus knew he was God, and that he taught his disciples as such. Then there is John 10:30 - "I and the Father are one". Again, in v33, the Jews understood this as a claim to be God. I say to you: stand by your words. Let Jesus be who he said he is.
In light of Luke 17:1-4, I beg you to repent. Know your God, cease your blasphemy, and stop leading God's people astray.
I truly hope you read this.
In Christ
-I
Greetings
ReplyDeleteIf you persevere with the video,
it addresses your points concerning
John 1.1,3,14; Philippians 2.5-11, John 8.58 & John 10.30.
So please watch the rest of the video.
I will simply add that
a) John 1.1-3 doesn't even mention Jesus. These verses are about GOD's word, through which all things were created.
(Cp. Psalm 33.6,9)
The word of GOD finally became flesh in v.14 resulting in the person of Jesus the Messiah.
So Jesus, is what the word of GOD became.
b) Jesus clearly identifies who the only true GOD is!
John is not contradicting his Master.
(John 17:1) These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, ...
(John 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
So we are in Him i.e. GOD
that is true; and
in his Son Jesus Christ.
This is the true GOD is obviously referring to GOD the Father.
Especially in 1&2 John, this is not always referring to the nearest antecedent;
compare 1 John 2.22, 2 John 7.
Besides, Paul concurs with Jesus and John:
(1 Th 1:9-10) For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; 10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
c) There are various ways the Greek text of Rom 9.5 can be translated. The majority presenting the full stop after 'flesh', hence ascribing the doxology to GOD the Father as Paul customarily does
i.e. Rom 1.25, Gal 1.4-5, 2 Cor 1.3, 11.31, Eph 1.3.
(See for example, the translation of Rom 9.5 in NAB, RSV, NEB, CEV)
Even a MSS of the 5th century, Codex Ephraemi has a period after "flesh".
d) (Phil 2:11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
There is obviously a clear distinction concerning who is receiving glory here
i.e. the ONE GOD, the Father.
It is the ONE GOD who made the man Jesus of Nazareth, both Lord & Messiah. [Acts 2.36]
So it is to His glory that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that indeed Jesus is Lord!! Amen!
Therefore:
(1 Tim 2:5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men,
the man Christ Jesus;
Please watch the rest of the video.
Yours In Messiah
Adam Pastor
The Human Jesus
Adam,
ReplyDeleteI have a lot to do right now, and I don't feel that setting aside 2hrs to watch your video would be the best thing for me to do right now. I love God and I love His truth; sometimes we need to choose the focus of our attention from among many possibilities. I will not promise to watch it, but if I do find time to watch it I will try to leave you some feedback, either here or on your own blog.
While I am writing, I will bring up one point of concern I had with the video. The 22 minutes I watched included a number of voxpops. One of these was of an old African American gentleman, who gave a simple and honest account of his Trinitarian beliefs. The old African American gentleman who was interviewing the first gentleman laughed at him, at one point, in clear view of the camera. This is exceedingly poor form, not only for an interviewer but for a Christian. There is a vast difference between self-evident truth, and the appearance of truth through the ridicule of the opposite. God is the God of truth, not the appearance of it. Please consider this for your next production.